Edited by dlanor at Thu Nov 27, 2014 06:03 |
I don't want to start another of the ever-recurring 'Linux VS Windows' wars that plague many forums.
But there are a few things I need to respond to in a recent post of mattrix.
That's entirely a matter of opinion.
mattrix replied at Wed Nov 26, 2014 14:26 I was referring to developing in Linux.
On Windows, you are basically forced into using clunky programs.
Well written programs under Windows are no more or less likely to be 'clunky' than under any other OS.
That's entirely up to the programmers writing those programs.
Here we're talking of software, not human relationships, so there is no need for such love to be exclusive, nor overprotective.
That's why I have fell in love with Linux.
Both are natural responses, of course, but inappropriate in this context.
------ lots of stuff omitted, as it would be pointless to respond -----
I see nothing wrong with overkill, as long as it only consumes computer effort while easing human effort.
I just thinking using a VM to emulate a GUI is a bit overkill.
Please don't put words in my mouth that I never used myself.
And your argument that we should use big clunky Os's for simply command line tasks because it's 2014 is completely wrong.
I never said that you or others "SHOULD" use anything.
It's you who want to limit the implementation to console-only, while I want to allow either usage.
What's wrong with that ?
As for the 2014 reference, that simply meant that we are no longer forced to use console-only for everything, like we were forced to do back in the 70's when no GUI-based OS existed for the newly appearing microcomputers (as they were still called then, to separate them from 'mainframes').
And for generic computer usage, we definitely NEED to use GUI-based OS, since there are many things we just can't do in console windows.
(Seen any good console-based web-browsers lately... ? Or multi-window code editors ? (to mention something more relevant))
As for 'Clunky OS', both our methods involve installing what's essentially the same OS: A recent Ubuntu version
The only difference is that you are opposed to using its GUI.
I'm no fan of Windows 8 myself, though it does get a little better in version 8.1, but my real favorite Windows version is Win7pro_x64.
It's more relevant now than ever - have you tried to do any development work on Windows 8? - took me 30mins to find something resembling a desktop!
But I'm not married to the 'Windows' concept as such, though most of the other OS I use are run in VMs under VMware.
And the fact that I did write those instructions in that way should have told you that I am in no way 'bashing" command line usage.
I don't see how you can start bashing command line, when all your instructions in your first post are command line.
I never have.
But I have pointed out the obvious fact that there are limits to the usefulness of console windows, and some things are better done by GUI methods.
Don't be absurd. The role of me as a supposed opponent of all console usage is a role you created in your imagination.
Can you please write a new tutorial for building Android in a GUI then?
And now you demand that I defend that role, even though I had no part in it...???
Obviously the project build scripts and other components that were created for console-type invocation must be used that way.
But other parts of project maintenance, most importantly the browsing and editing of the sources, these require GUI-based methods and tools for best effects.
eg: How can you view many simultaneous related source files, to follow their intercactions, in an SSH console window ?
What are you talking about ?
It's not about forcing people into an OS.
It's about giving the user / developer a STABLE development environment for a certain task (building Android)
Your instructions in this first post is forcing someone to use Ubuntu 12.04 or Ubuntu 14.04.
If it was using Vagrant, it would run in Windows, Linux and even MAC OS.
My method is intended for use EITHER with a physical Ubuntu system or one emulated by VMware or VirtualBox or whatever.
And thus it will run on any system capable of using such emulators.
Your method is intended for use of a similar Ubuntu system emulated only by VirtualBox, managed by Vagrant.
And yet you consider my method more 'forced' than your own.
The real difference is that I recommend use of Ubuntu 14.04, which allows both GUI and console based work.
Whereas you recommend Ubuntu 12.04, and to use only console based work but no GUI work at all.
I also concede that your method simplifies installation for users, as they don't have to prepare a VM of their own.
Bottom line: I don't see these methods as opposed to each other.
They are just different approaches to handling the Android project builds, and there's no reason why they can't coexist.
I think not, as I'm no newcomer to command-line usage. I've been using it for quite some time (over 35 years).
I was like you when I started Linux - I was trying to make it like Windows.
Once I embraced SSH and terminal, WOW!
I think as you progress with Linux, you will start seeing what I mean.
Naturally I recognize that it's still useful for many things, but also that there are many things it just won't do well.
99% of everything you want to do, perhaps. Certainly a lot of development build work is by tradition console oriented.
On Linux, 99% of everything can be done with terminal and notepad.
But not 99% of generic computer usage. And not even all development work. There are GUI-based development environments too.
(Though none suitable for our project, as far as I know.)
Exactly! This is one thing we both agree on!
But, at the end of the day - whatever works for you and what your comfortable with is good
I hope this post is not seen as aggressive, because it certainly isn't intended to be.
I just needed to clarify my position:
That I am neither opponent nor proponent on either side of the Linux VS Windows wars.
Nor am I in any way opposed to console command-line usage, where appropriate.
I just don't think it is appropriate for everything we need to do.
Best regards: dlanor